EE Preview: Moto Naleesh

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Daigotsu Thrakhath
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Mon Nov 07, 2011 2:51 pm

Ok I have to ask, does her action destroy cards that both have no attachments and don't have cavalry, or does she destroy all cards without attachments, and all cards without cavalry?
Spider Clan * Samurai * Cavalry * Commander * Paragon

Battle: Bow Thrakhath and target an enemy personality: Thrakhath makes a play mistake. Give the personality +4 force.

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Moto Eiji
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Mon Nov 07, 2011 2:54 pm

They have to meet both requirements. So if the personality has attachments then they just bow while any of those attachments that are not cav will be destroyed.
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Isawa Syd
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Mon Nov 07, 2011 3:04 pm

ummmm... yeah. she is a nasty piece of champion: i don't know what you guys are talking about. yeah, she bows the unit, doesn't kill it: BUT THEN SHE KILLS ALL THE ATTACHMENTS! that's wyrmbones, strength of the tsunamis, channeling the fallens, etc, etc. and i don't think many decktypes that are not unicorn are going to be running cavalry followers. heck- she's damn fine. i'm sure she'll be more than awesome for you. even if you don't kill their dude you still cripple their economy by destroying everything they just paid for. true, there is attachment-destruction negation (near miss to name one) but hiromi has to deal with redirect- and as far as i know there is a whole heck of a lot more redirect than attachment destruction negation.

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Mon Nov 07, 2011 3:08 pm

Pedestrian? She's on a horse! 8-)

She does have an unconditional unit bow that strips the personality of any and all attachments that are not cavalry followers, not too shabby. (Oh, and her bow is in practice a kill action against non cavalry peeps without attachments. And aren't cavalry peeps with cavalry attachments mainly unicorn anyway, so the drawback would go both ways? either way, any eventual kill is just a bonus...)
"Straighten during each players straighten phase" in itself seems like a good defensive deterrent...
(But what do I know, I'm mainly a Phoenix player... and not necessarily a good one at that! :oops: )

Also, doesn't "soloing a province" mean that she could take a province alone. That she has to discard a card for it doesn't really change that, right?

Just tired of the overall pessimism of teh internets, don't mind me! ;)
Main thing, don't discount the ability to strip all those annoying attachments that are out there! ;)

She does make me happy of my decision to make a Battle Maiden deck for EE, since it seems she would fit in quite nicely there! :D
(I like all clan champs so far. Maybe a bit underwhelmed by Hiromi, but that has more to do with him not really thematically fitting in the forest spirit deck I would like to make than his abilities, which seem great...)

Btw, "Hello everybody!" :oops:

Isawa Ando
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Mon Nov 07, 2011 3:09 pm

What do you know, Phoenix players fear attachment destruction! ;)

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Iuchi Toshimo
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Mon Nov 07, 2011 3:42 pm

I'm not understanding the comparison that the Mantis champ is far superior. Attaching a Wyrmbone or other expensive thing to your guys mitigates his action. Naleesh just zeroes a unit, no restrictions (well, besides Vigilant Riders or that ilk.)

I've been playing a lot of EE decks out of the known cards and attachments are pretty strong in that pre-base set environment. Nakanu Technique, Crab tokens, and Grateful Reward offer card advantage and really limit cost effective battle options thus are very strong plays.

-Targeting through attachments is very nice.
-Destroying non-cav attachments is questionable. Notably, it does not kill (or otherwise bother) Vigilant Riders and it seems counterproductive to PotM to destroy cards filled with juicy, delicious honor. On the other hand, most of the time this will be fantastic since we get to pick our fights. Defending armies are usually full of naked people. Most notably, super-units will be a big mistake against the Unicorn.
-Gold cost seems high, but after a hundred "EE" games or so, using BKexp, I typically get Silk Works or Recruitment Officer, Stables or 2GC Utility, and a Small Farm on turn 1. She can come out turn 2 barring a horrendous gold screw, occasionally with enough gold to buy another holding. Just like now.
-The straighten trait is absolutely bonkers, IMHO. The Perfect Moment in Every Deck. And it even if it isn't, play like it is.

Solid A-, deduction for the silly non-cav clause.
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Ide Yesugei
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Mon Nov 07, 2011 4:02 pm

Well I only wish I could discuss this card before January but I will say that she does grow on you after a few games.
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SpookyElectric
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Mon Nov 07, 2011 4:03 pm

Based on the holdings we've already seen previewed, if you're a Unicorn player that goes second, you can buy Naleesh on turn 2.

Also, she's a Tactician, so she can bust a province all by herself without attachments.

This is what a good champion looks like, I assure you.
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Horiuchi Meimei
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Mon Nov 07, 2011 4:05 pm

I would not be impressed if she was just a straight-up unit bow, but a full unit bow plus stripping off all items, all spells, and all non-cavalry followers is pretty sweet.

The 10HR is a bit annoying because God forbid Unicorn gets a reliably-purchasable 2nd turn Champion like pretty much every other Clan. :roll:

Overall, very playable and potentially quite strong. She doesn't have the "OMG" factor of Hiromi or the efficiency of Nitoshi and Makoto but an easy include in at least 75% of Unicorn decks. Not so sure she'll be effective in the Shugenja decks since that's a very exclusive keyword to work with. I'm happy with her!
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SpookyElectric
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Mon Nov 07, 2011 4:11 pm

Horiuchi Meimei wrote: The 10HR is a bit annoying because God forbid Unicorn gets a reliably-purchasable 2nd turn Champion like pretty much every other Clan. :roll:
But that's just it, she is a reliably turn 2 champion! Remember, we already know that Silk Works is being reprinted (thanks to the GenCon demo decks) and you start with 9g if you go second. That's already 6 holdings in Unicorn decks that produce over 3 gold that can be bought with the Stronghold alone! Unicorn Gold scheme is looking pretty good! Buy at least 2 3g+ holdings on turn 1 and you're set!

And if you're running "One Koku," then you might even be able to buy her turn 2 even if you're going first! Granted, it's MUCH more reliable if you go second, but she's still reliable enough for your opponent to worry about it.

Moto Chen was only 1 gold less expensive (if you count the Honor Requirement's +2). It's a non-issue with what we've seen of the Unicorn's current gold scheme. And for that +1 gold you get one more phonor and WAY more keyword traits, including Paragon, which seems to be ramping up in power thanks to Sec-C!
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Horiuchi Meimei
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Mon Nov 07, 2011 4:31 pm

SpookyElectric wrote:But that's just it, she is a reliably turn 2 champion! Remember, we already know that Silk Works is being reprinted (thanks to the GenCon demo decks) and you start with 9g if you go second. That's already 6 holdings in Unicorn decks that produce over 3 gold that can be bought with the Stronghold alone! Unicorn Gold scheme is looking pretty good! Buy at least 2 3g+ holdings on turn 1 and you're set!

Moto Chen was only 1 gold less expensive (if you count the Honor Requirement's +2). It's a non-issue with what we've seen of the Unicorn's current gold scheme. And for that +1 gold you get one more phonor and WAY more keyword traits, including Paragon, which seems to be ramping up in power thanks to Sec-C!
I do appreciate the optimism. It has been my experience that Unicorn's 4FH goes first in well over half the games I played in CE, so no Bamboo Harvesters there. Mantis and Scorpion are much more likely to have access to a Bamboo Harvester with their low FH, hence Hiromi and Nitoshi are more often easier to afford. And if I could reliably pull a Silk Works or pair of 3G-producing holdings on the first turn... well, let's just say you might have seen more Horiuchi chosen for story prizes. :D Don't get me wrong. I do like Naleesh a lot. I just don't think we'll see nearly as many tournament reports proclaiming the horrors of a turn 2 Naleesh as we will for Hiromi and Nitoshi. ;)
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Utaku Hidaki
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Mon Nov 07, 2011 5:04 pm

I remain unimpressed, particularly in comparison to the power level that I perceive in the other champions already previewed. All of this is speculation on everyone's part who was not part of playtest, since we don't actually know what the entire pool of cards will be, but based on my own experience she would appear to be overcosted - especially in comparison to the other clan champs. Crane kills an entire unit, costs 10g and has an above starting honor requirement - and won't need much to be taking provinces solo as well. Mantis gets Naval/Kill for 11g cheap. Scorpion is a bit different but is still easily purchasable for the discount and offers an attractive set of actions that are far less conditional than Naleesh's. Naleesh would of been fine at at a 4HR or an 11GC - 10HR and 13GC is what makes me question the value of the personality, especially given that we have four military themes that will rarely reach 10 family honor outside of battle maidens.
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Shinjo Kamui
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Mon Nov 07, 2011 6:16 pm

She is good.

Why DT, why we can't have a peep to take provinces solo? Chagatai Curse?
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MotoKCi
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Mon Nov 07, 2011 6:35 pm

No one is saying she is not an awesome personality

6F, tactician, bow unit, potential kill, key words, good trait, those are all very nice.

The problem is 13G with 10HR, Chen have all the above things as well, he is 1 gold cheaper, and no one here will tell you he is not mediocre. The dilemma i often have is, buy 1 Chen, or buy 2 4 force Uni peep with battle actions, and he is never better than 2 7/8 gold peep.

Here is the scenario, Naleesh cost 13G (reduce), 2 8G peep cost 12G (both reduced), in fact, she is like a 9G peep and 8G peep, INSANELY expensive
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Shinjo Kei
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Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:07 pm

I think the list of traits will make her more valuable than she appears based on her stats and abilities. As the arc progresses and more cards key of bold traits, I think the ultility

As Unicorn Champions cards go, she's clearly 5th behind- Chags 4, Gaheris, Chags 3, and Chen. She's ahead of Yokastu and Chags 5, but not by much.

Shinjo Kamui
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Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:14 pm

MotoKCi wrote:No one is saying she is not an awesome personality

6F, tactician, bow unit, potential kill, key words, good trait, those are all very nice.

The problem is 13G with 10HR, Chen have all the above things as well, he is 1 gold cheaper, and no one here will tell you he is not mediocre. The dilemma i often have is, buy 1 Chen, or buy 2 4 force Uni peep with battle actions, and he is never better than 2 7/8 gold peep.

Here is the scenario, Naleesh cost 13G (reduce), 2 8G peep cost 12G (both reduced), in fact, she is like a 9G peep and 8G peep, INSANELY expensive
And she has less force than two peeps :)

I'm a little off L5R right now, but in my last kotei I played a Follower build and Kodama was AWESOME. Naalesh with Champion of Thunder(8f 12g naval cavalry) would be freaking awesome :)
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Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:17 pm

You guys are also forgetting that she will be in a totally different arc than Chen too! I think she will be really strong in any Unicorn Deck, especially the three she has keywords for.

Her strong point is that she straightens during EACH PLAYER'S straighten phase and, because she's Paragon AND Tactician, she can Perfect Moment to take a province after she's already taken one in your turn, so she has the potential to take 3 Provinces on her own for 2 normal attack phases and a Perfect Moment attack phase.

You bring her out turn 2.
You attack turn 3 and take a province.
They attack you and take a province.
You Perfect Moment and take a province.
You attack turn 4 and take a province.

Because she has cavalry she can go around your opponents defenses so it make it easier to take provinces on the normal attack phase and on the Perfect Moment one as well.

What is even better about this is that you can bow out all your guys while attacking and she'll straighten to make your opponent think: "Hold on, there's a Clan Champion defending, should I worry about having Perfect Moment used on me?" I find the psychological threat is all you need to either hold off an attack or take a province.

I'll admit her Battle Action isn't amazing, and her Honor Requirement is quite annoying. Her trait gives her more pros than cons, in my view...
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Kwek
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Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:47 pm

T0
House [5g] BK [2g]
total: 7g
T1
Silk Works [4g] Stables [3g]
total: 14g
Silk Works [4g] Utility Holding [2g]
total: 13g
Stables [3g] Remote Farm [3g]
total: 13g
Stables/Remote Village [3g] Utility Holding [2g] Small Farm/One Koku [1g]
total 13g
T2
Naleesh
T3
attach Hunger + attack

this is not accounting Bamboo Harvesters ofcourse ;)
perma spearhead [unit straighten] + paragon + tactician + cavalry = work horse :lol:
*not even including commander since it doesn't have good support... yet
Last edited by Kwek on Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Grendak
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Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:04 pm

She's a solid card for the HR/cost. Just not a GREAT card for it. If she were previewed 1st I'd have gushed over her, but as it I compare her to the other champions and feel mildly irritated. I mean, she's LADY SHINJO! I'd have prefered a trait where she could not be targeted by other players open/limited actions, just thinking about someone using Seek The Stain to make her Kolat......

Shinjo Dun
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Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:17 pm

Shinjo Kei wrote:As Unicorn Champions cards go, she's clearly 5th behind- Chags 4, Gaheris, Chags 3, and Chen. She's ahead of Yokastu and Chags 5, but not by much.
Chags 3 is better than Gaheris XP or Chags 4. That being said, Chags 5 is better than Naleesh and Chen.

And while I'd agree that Yokatsu XP wasn't good, that's more due to the era of play. If he was printed say, last arc, he'd be nuts.

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